Post by mph on Jun 25, 2023 21:04:36 GMT -5
Now that I am back in the warm Texas embrace, here is a summation of Lionel's late 1950s into the 1960s cabooses. I've compiled this summary from information found in Greenberg's Guide To Lionel HO, Volume I - 1957-1966, by George J. Horan and Vincent Rosa, as well as observations that I have from collecting most of these cars.
Lionel's entry into HO started with a partnership with Rivarossi. Products were sold beginning in 1957. As with most Rivarossi made products, the Rivarossi signature will be on the underside. Since the Rivarossi relationship was short, only 2 cabooses were produced: a boober caboose with the Reading road name and a work caboose with the Pennsylvania road name. The book points out that there were 8 road names in the diesels and neither of the caboose road names matched the diesel road names. Both cars have the Lionel circle "L" logo.
In 1958, Athearn partnered with Lionel and this lasted into 1960 when Lionel began to produce their own products and shifted their focus to action items and compromised realism in the process. Standard cabooses and work cabooses were produced. The standard cabooses had the catalog number of 0817-xx, regardless of the road number on the caboose. A quick listing of the 8 road names with catalog number and road number:
• 0817 - Milwaukee Road - 01924, silver paint with the 'L' logo
• 0817-25 - Virginian - 1217 - dark blue paint with the 'L' logo
• 0817-50 - Rio Grande - 01439 - silver paint with the 'L' logo
• 0817-200 - Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) - 0817 - white paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
• 0817-225 - Alaska Railroad - 0817 - dark blue paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
• 0817-250 - The Texas Special - 0817 - red paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
• 0817-275 - New Haven - 0817 - black paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
• 0817-300 - Southern Pacific - 0817 - red paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
Note that the 3 cabooses that are not numbered 0817, were painted by Athearn and appear to be identical to the models Athearn sold but with the circle 'L' logo on the Lionel versions. The other cars were painted by Lionel, thus the same road number.
There were 5 Athearn produced work cabooses plus a hybrid version where Lionel placed their caboose body on an Athearn flat car. Catalog number for these cars was 0819-xx. The road names were Pennsylvania, U.S. Navy, Baltimore & Ohio, Boston & Maine, Wabash. From what I can tell, only the B&M road name was used for the hybrid version. All non-hybrid work cabooses are Athearn cabooses with the circle 'L' logo. The hybrid caboose has the BLT BY LIONEL stamp.
Hold on, things are about to get messy as the Lionel production kicks in.
Lionel started producing their product in 1960 and there was overlap with Athearn for awhile. At first glance, the Lionel cabooses are clones of the Athearn cabooses. There are 2 obvious identifying differences and a third difference found on the underside of the frame. The obvious spotting differences are 2 side tabs used to hold the shell to the frame and create to black slots on the sides of the caboose. These tabs are in addition to the end tabs used by Athearn. The second difference are the ladders. Lionel's version does not stick up much over the roof. The final difference is that the frame will be marked "Lionel".
The book surmises that the catalog numbers indicate years the cabooses were produced. Their conclusion is:
• 0817 - 1959-1960, regardless if the caboose was manufactured by Athearn or Lionel
• 0827 - 1961-1963
• 0837, 0838, 0840, and 0841 were used from 1961-1966, which overlaps with 0827, so I'm not sure of their evidence for this conclusion.
To make production dates even more confusing is that Lionel slightly modified the frame around 1963. The original frame had a part number on the bottom and is considered the Type I frame. The later frame, or Type II, does not have a part number. This change coincides with Lionel change from sprung trucks to solid trucks.
I'm not sure I buy into the time frames for the catalog numbers. My take is that Lionel started with 0817 and realized the confusion with the earlier Athearn units. To me 0827 seems to be only used for the lighted cabooses. 0837, 0383 and 0840 are specific to 3 road names (more on that later), so 0841 is the primary catalog number used for all Lionel cabooses from 1961 with the exceptions I just noted.
Lionel used the 0817 catalog number for 4 cabooses. All 4 cars have the road number of 0817.
• 0817-150 - Santa Fe, red
• 0817-275 - New Haven, black, yes the same catalog number as the Athearn version
• 0817-325 - Union Pacific, yellow
• 0817-350 - Rock Island, Red
Note that only the New Haven car has the BLT BY LIONEL stamp.
Things get absolutely crazy from here. The book dedicates around a page of text, plus a page of photos explaining all of the cabooses and variations Lionel produced from 1961-1966. I'm not even going to try and convey all of this information, but I will share some highlights.
From what I can tell, the only caboose produced with an 0837 catalog number is the M&StL road name and the only one with the 0838 catalog number was the Erie road name. Also, it appears that catalog number 0840 was only used for the New York Central which was sold with OUT handrails, smokestack, brake wheels nor ladders.
Several road names were produced with different catalog numbers. For example, AEC was produced with catalog number 0817, 0827 and 0841, and there was a lighted version. Another change that took place with the 0841 cataloged cabooses is that later versions were note painted, but the color was molded in the plastic. AEC, Santa Fe and Union Pacific all had a non-painted, molded painted version.
Some oddities, the undecorated version was produced with a stamped 0841 road number. So the undecorated version wasn't completely undecorated. Another oddity is they produced a car without a road name, but lettered Safety First. This was catalog number 0827 and came in a lighted and unlighted version.
As far as work cabooses, Lionel produced 4 road names: Boston & Maine, Santa Fe, Northern Pacific and Chesapeake & Ohio.
I hope this provides the info people were looking for, and no, I don't have a complete collection of all of the variations. Once I got all of the Athearn versions, I decided the effort to track down everything was more than I was willing to go through and stopped looking. Although I was writing this I became interested in the second New Haven version (the Lionel version painted the same as the Athearn one) and may go on the hunt for this one.
I'm not an expert and rely on other sources, but I'm happy to answer any questions.
Lionel's entry into HO started with a partnership with Rivarossi. Products were sold beginning in 1957. As with most Rivarossi made products, the Rivarossi signature will be on the underside. Since the Rivarossi relationship was short, only 2 cabooses were produced: a boober caboose with the Reading road name and a work caboose with the Pennsylvania road name. The book points out that there were 8 road names in the diesels and neither of the caboose road names matched the diesel road names. Both cars have the Lionel circle "L" logo.
In 1958, Athearn partnered with Lionel and this lasted into 1960 when Lionel began to produce their own products and shifted their focus to action items and compromised realism in the process. Standard cabooses and work cabooses were produced. The standard cabooses had the catalog number of 0817-xx, regardless of the road number on the caboose. A quick listing of the 8 road names with catalog number and road number:
• 0817 - Milwaukee Road - 01924, silver paint with the 'L' logo
• 0817-25 - Virginian - 1217 - dark blue paint with the 'L' logo
• 0817-50 - Rio Grande - 01439 - silver paint with the 'L' logo
• 0817-200 - Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) - 0817 - white paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
• 0817-225 - Alaska Railroad - 0817 - dark blue paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
• 0817-250 - The Texas Special - 0817 - red paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
• 0817-275 - New Haven - 0817 - black paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
• 0817-300 - Southern Pacific - 0817 - red paint, stamped BLT BY LIONEL
Note that the 3 cabooses that are not numbered 0817, were painted by Athearn and appear to be identical to the models Athearn sold but with the circle 'L' logo on the Lionel versions. The other cars were painted by Lionel, thus the same road number.
There were 5 Athearn produced work cabooses plus a hybrid version where Lionel placed their caboose body on an Athearn flat car. Catalog number for these cars was 0819-xx. The road names were Pennsylvania, U.S. Navy, Baltimore & Ohio, Boston & Maine, Wabash. From what I can tell, only the B&M road name was used for the hybrid version. All non-hybrid work cabooses are Athearn cabooses with the circle 'L' logo. The hybrid caboose has the BLT BY LIONEL stamp.
Hold on, things are about to get messy as the Lionel production kicks in.
Lionel started producing their product in 1960 and there was overlap with Athearn for awhile. At first glance, the Lionel cabooses are clones of the Athearn cabooses. There are 2 obvious identifying differences and a third difference found on the underside of the frame. The obvious spotting differences are 2 side tabs used to hold the shell to the frame and create to black slots on the sides of the caboose. These tabs are in addition to the end tabs used by Athearn. The second difference are the ladders. Lionel's version does not stick up much over the roof. The final difference is that the frame will be marked "Lionel".
The book surmises that the catalog numbers indicate years the cabooses were produced. Their conclusion is:
• 0817 - 1959-1960, regardless if the caboose was manufactured by Athearn or Lionel
• 0827 - 1961-1963
• 0837, 0838, 0840, and 0841 were used from 1961-1966, which overlaps with 0827, so I'm not sure of their evidence for this conclusion.
To make production dates even more confusing is that Lionel slightly modified the frame around 1963. The original frame had a part number on the bottom and is considered the Type I frame. The later frame, or Type II, does not have a part number. This change coincides with Lionel change from sprung trucks to solid trucks.
I'm not sure I buy into the time frames for the catalog numbers. My take is that Lionel started with 0817 and realized the confusion with the earlier Athearn units. To me 0827 seems to be only used for the lighted cabooses. 0837, 0383 and 0840 are specific to 3 road names (more on that later), so 0841 is the primary catalog number used for all Lionel cabooses from 1961 with the exceptions I just noted.
Lionel used the 0817 catalog number for 4 cabooses. All 4 cars have the road number of 0817.
• 0817-150 - Santa Fe, red
• 0817-275 - New Haven, black, yes the same catalog number as the Athearn version
• 0817-325 - Union Pacific, yellow
• 0817-350 - Rock Island, Red
Note that only the New Haven car has the BLT BY LIONEL stamp.
Things get absolutely crazy from here. The book dedicates around a page of text, plus a page of photos explaining all of the cabooses and variations Lionel produced from 1961-1966. I'm not even going to try and convey all of this information, but I will share some highlights.
From what I can tell, the only caboose produced with an 0837 catalog number is the M&StL road name and the only one with the 0838 catalog number was the Erie road name. Also, it appears that catalog number 0840 was only used for the New York Central which was sold with OUT handrails, smokestack, brake wheels nor ladders.
Several road names were produced with different catalog numbers. For example, AEC was produced with catalog number 0817, 0827 and 0841, and there was a lighted version. Another change that took place with the 0841 cataloged cabooses is that later versions were note painted, but the color was molded in the plastic. AEC, Santa Fe and Union Pacific all had a non-painted, molded painted version.
Some oddities, the undecorated version was produced with a stamped 0841 road number. So the undecorated version wasn't completely undecorated. Another oddity is they produced a car without a road name, but lettered Safety First. This was catalog number 0827 and came in a lighted and unlighted version.
As far as work cabooses, Lionel produced 4 road names: Boston & Maine, Santa Fe, Northern Pacific and Chesapeake & Ohio.
I hope this provides the info people were looking for, and no, I don't have a complete collection of all of the variations. Once I got all of the Athearn versions, I decided the effort to track down everything was more than I was willing to go through and stopped looking. Although I was writing this I became interested in the second New Haven version (the Lionel version painted the same as the Athearn one) and may go on the hunt for this one.
I'm not an expert and rely on other sources, but I'm happy to answer any questions.
